Wright Stuff C

[klastyioer]

As a manufacturer I couldn't care less, but as a mentor of umpteen young modelers it makes my blood boil, especially considering who writes these rules. He should know better, and he keeps doing this crap anyway.

Josh, since you seem to have a specific person in mind, would you care to share exactly who you are so frustrated with and why exactly it makes your blood boil? What other "crap" has this person done previously?....
Hope everyone has a great day!
Matt Chalker

I think the point Josh is trying to make is the rules will result in an airplane which is difficult to fly. The small props will burn the winds quickly and the small stab will require moving the wing closer to the point of instability.

This will reduce the flight times (the intended goal) but at the expense of possibly making it too difficult for new/beginner teams. They may become frustrated and quit indoor flying or Science Olympiad.

This seems to go against the goal of the organization. Regardless, these are the rules and we need to live with them for this year. Hopefully, in the future everyone can provide beneficial ways to make the event easier yet still challenging.

Thanks
John

i agree with this
i dont think that their intent is to make anyone upset, rather to have all the times reduced for ease at competition and to make this still somewhat fun and enjoyable to learn
i actually like was late to my bus back to the hotel at nats cause i wanted to see rustins flight
they almost left without my friends and i because the timing for the competition went over the timeblock
i feel like itd be easier on the people who organize and supervise this event since the times will go down now
itd also be a bit easier on me cause now i can watch rustins flight in peace

[klastyioer]

Hey guys!

Just a general question, but do you usually just buy 1 kit brand or buy multiple kits and learn from there? Last year I bought the Senior Flyer which was a AMAZING plane designed by Joshua Finn, but the year before that I didn't build with a kit. This year I have already build the 2020 Senior Flyer with the biplane design but am wondering should I also get the freedom flight models kit too? I've never tried Dave's kit before so any thoughts would be appreciated! Also, at the end of building from kits, I plan to attempt to build from my own design, take what I've learned from the kit(s).

Best Regards,

Franklin Hung

personally i would try to start with one at a time but progress to more and more kits throughout the year
it doesnt even have to be kits they can simply be plans or designs
there are different perks to each kit, ones in which im not going to state because its not my duty to place bias upon competitors and which kit they purchase
but i would give one at a time a go and see what happens from there
if youre interested in more id be happy to post a list of kits out there available for anyone and everyone

[bjt4888]

Agree with K. Look for best practices in the various kits. Buy them and try them or buy one of them and do research in this forum, in Hip Pocket and in INAV to determine best practices and use the knowledge you gain to modify your kit.

In order to reach the highest level, look at designs and procedures used by the best teams (and/or the best AMA or FAI designs and procedures). As with any pursuit, there is a large amount of research and practice needed to be the best.

Read the entire Scioly forum (all years), if you haven’t done this already.

Good luck and have fun,

Brian T

[lechassin]

Hi everyone, I just signed up here to ask you all something on behalf of my son. As a background, we did well with a tandem wing design last year, and we think the layout is superior to a traditional "biplane" with a stabilizer. We noticed that the way this year's rules are worded, a tandem wing is perfectly legal:

1) Multiple wings are permitted.
2) No maximum offset for the wings is specified, therefore one wing at each end of the fuselage is permitted.
3) No minimum stabilizer size is specified, therefore complete omission of the stabilizer is permitted.

Admittedly this does not appear to be in the "spirit of the rules", but the ability to exploit rules right out to their boundaries is one of the things that defines a good engineer.

Now for my question(s): does a "letter of the law" mentality prevail in Science Olympiad or do the judges have the authority to enforce potentially subjective "spirit of the rules" algorithms to disqualify participants? If it's the former, we would like to build a tandem and not have to argue our case at every event. If it's the latter we will build a "biplane" with a stabilizer but we would like to know that we can officially challenge anyone who shows up with a tandem wing.

Finally, I hope you'll all forgive me adding this: the event is obviously super competitive so for the purposes of this discussion let's dispense with any "lighten up, we're all here just to have fun!" type stuff.

[jander14indoor]

klastyioer has it ABSOLUTELY right.

Start with one design, kit, plan, whatever trips your trigger. Which one doesn't really matter, other than it fits the rules (and that's actually minor) and it should be a proven design. Get it to fly well. Learn what it takes to build light, how to handle without breaking, make the planes fly (trimming), how to repair (you will break your plane anyway). That, by itself (and assuming it was a legal design), will win or place at most regionals.

Once you have comfort at that level, try different designs. With the skills you've gained, you can now judge the good or bad points of the new design instead of your building/trimming skills.

With several builds and much flying experience under your belt, you'll be able to explore/combine/evaluate features into that nationally competitive plane and pilot.

And let me emphasize pilot, YOU. The best designed and built plane in the world is useless in uneducated hands. And educated hands can make a mediocre plane fly far better than most people expect.

Jeff Anderson
Livonia, MI

[nicholasmaurer]

Hi everyone, I just signed up here to ask you all something on behalf of my son. As a background, we did well with a tandem wing design last year, and we think the layout is superior to a traditional "biplane" with a stabilizer. We noticed that the way this year's rules are worded, a tandem wing is perfectly legal:

1) Multiple wings are permitted.
2) No maximum offset for the wings is specified, therefore one wing at each end of the fuselage is permitted.
3) No minimum stabilizer size is specified, therefore complete omission of the stabilizer is permitted.

Admittedly this does not appear to be in the "spirit of the rules", but the ability to exploit rules right out to their boundaries is one of the things that defines a good engineer.

Now for my question(s): does a "letter of the law" mentality prevail in Science Olympiad or do the judges have the authority to enforce potentially subjective "spirit of the rules" algorithms to disqualify participants? If it's the former, we would like to build a tandem and not have to argue our case at every event. If it's the latter we will build a "biplane" with a stabilizer but we would like to know that we can officially challenge anyone who shows up with a tandem wing.

Finally, I hope you'll all forgive me adding this: the event is obviously super competitive so for the purposes of this discussion let's dispense with any "lighten up, we're all here just to have fun!" type stuff.

I agree there is some ambiguity on when the wing dimension restrictions apply vs. when the horizontal stabilizer dimensions apply. I submitted an FAQ last week for clarity on this point.

However, I do not expect tandem wings to be permitted. Wright Stuff rule 1 states that the event involves construction of "monoplanes or biplanes". Airplanes with tandem wings are not traditionally classified as biplanes, which instead are defined as fixed-wing aircraft with two main wings stacked one above the other.

As for your larger question about whether ES can enforce the spirit of the rules: see general rule #1.

[nicholasmaurer]

If it's the latter we will build a "biplane" with a stabilizer but we would like to know that we can officially challenge anyone who shows up with a tandem wing.

One note on this specifically: If I understand you correctly, you are asking if you can challenge other teams who show up with designs you believe violate the rules. The answer is generally no; this is the responsibility of the Event Supervisor. Arbitrations typically have to be defensive in nature - you cannot generally submit an arbitration on the grounds that another team's device violated the rules and was not caught.

[jander14indoor]

OK, time for the annual disclaimer: This is explicitly NOT the place to get any kind of official FAQ or Clarification. The only official place for national FAQ or Clarifications is the NSO website, www.soinc.org Also note that individual tournaments may provide/impose their own FAQ or Clarification that is binding on their tournament.

So, if you really want to know, submit that FAQ on the national site. And don't hold back because someone else said they submitted something on the same topic. Not every question is answered publicly, somewhat influenced by how many people ask.

Note, that is not to say that you can't get reasonably thought out answers, like the definition of a biplane offered. However, it is still not official. And I've seen appeals where there is no FAQ, but folks look up multiple definitions to make a ruling on something like the case you propose.

Final thought, a general coaching tip. Unless it gives your a BIG advantage (and I suspect it won't, there's reason you see way more bi-planes than tandems in large scale planes), you need to really think about whether you want to do something that might get you tiered.

Now the following depends on the tournament, I'm more familiar with the way things happen in Michigan. Other states/regions may be different. You typically can't challenge an event supervisors rulings on other teams devices in an appeal. You can only appeal how they rule on YOUR device. I'm pretty sure Nationals is the same.

Jeff Anderson
Livonia, MI

[nicholasmaurer]

OK, time for the annual disclaimer: This is explicitly NOT the place to get any kind of official FAQ or Clarification. The only official place for national FAQ or Clarifications is the NSO website, www.soinc.org Also note that individual tournaments may provide/impose their own FAQ or Clarification that is binding on their tournament.

So, if you really want to know, submit that FAQ on the national site. And don't hold back because someone else said they submitted something on the same topic. Not every question is answered publicly, somewhat influenced by how many people ask.

Jeff is absolutely right. I have a disclaimer in my signature line for this exact reason. I often comment my opinion on rules questions, but they remain just opinions.

[lechassin]

Thanks for the response. I will look for the official FAQ and ask there.

I have no problem with whichever way it goes, I just want it to be clear.