How to get to Nationals and beat Troy

[Unome]

I'm not willing to rule out the possibility of a team rapidly rising to beat Troy, especially at state where they are less dominant (vs. early season). As others have mentioned, it will require total dedication from all or most of your team.

Maybe this is just me being cynical, but I don't seen what you mean by "less" dominant.
http://www.socalstatescioly.org/downloa ... Scores.pdf

Even taking into account the competitiveness of other teams in SoCal, that's not nearly as well as, for example, Solon and Mason did at OH state. Over the last 8 years, Troy has only been under 100 four times.

[primitivepolonium]

Yo so I'm actually from Troy. Thought I would chip in with my opinion.

I agree with everyone that you need to work on setting small goals for your team first, like getting to States every year and beating half the teams. Your goal shouldn't be Nationals right now. You being the only dedicated person on your team is a BIG problem. Troy (and other Cali schools) have 15 dedicated people. (And I'd say Troy has at least 21 or more every year.)

Short term:
Your biggest problem right now sounds like interest. You need to get people ASAP. You're a freshman right now, so you might not have lot of power to influence people around you to try harder, but what you can do is make friends on the team who will support you, and most importantly, cultivate people younger than you when the time comes and then train them to do the same etc. And if you have any STEM-y friends in your grade, drag them along for the ride. People with engineer parents are also really useful.

A girl I knew went to a HS with little SciOly interest. What she did was then go to every AP science class and ask the teachers to pub SciOly to their best students. It was a good idea since if you're studying really hard for a STEM class, you presumably have skill and interest in the subject. Her team ended up doing surprisingly well as a first time team. They scored in top half for most of their events. IDK your school culture, but sometimes kids will do things if their teachers recommend it either because they look up to said teacher, or want a letter of rec.

If you don't have a proactive or helpful coach, get one ASAP. Student-run groups are susceptible to squabbling, and a coach can keep order while serving as an admin liaison and providing an adult perspective. Troy would be nothing if they didn't have a great coach.

Longterm:
Now, if you really want to beat Troy: I also suggest you and your compatriots and coaches establish a "system". Arcadia is another SoCal school strong in Science Olympiad and Science Bowl, but they're also what we call a "glass cannon" (at least, in some SciBowl circles). They're 4000-5000 kids big, so they have enough manpower. Still, their performance fluctuates a lot with who is currently on the team etc. You don't want this. You want your team to either improve every year or remain roughly the same.

Try to introduce some good infrastructure for team selection and team interest. For instance, how do you guys do team selection? Is it completely student run and nepotism-ridden? Is there a really biased coach? Is it just whoever wants it gets it? It might be unfeasible to have 3 hour exams for every event (as Troy and other powerhouses do) at this point, but from experience: if you set some kind of standard, even if it's a small rules quiz or a 30 min exam, you at least get people somewhat invested in the material. Make people value their spot, if you can. And it sounds too early for this right now, but if SciOly ever blows up, a B team is a great and necessary investment/failsafe strategy. Troy (I use Troy as an example because I'm most acquainted with their process, not because they're the best comparison) broke out of its dry spell because the B team allowed freshmen (who didn't have the necessary STEM knowlege yet) to get involved while threatening stagnating upperclassmen. And for many other schools, the B team allows for mentorship.

I tried to start a SciBowl team. For 2 years, we went to Nationals for the first time in like a decade, but then afterwards, the team collapsed because we mainly recruited among our friend group and never had a good infrastructure for tryouts or passing down power. Our coach was great, but never forced us to set down a framework for continuous performance.

But honestly, you'll have to catch Troy on a bad year. Like IDK, after their head coach retires from SciOly, when all the SoCal districts finally stop the brain drains from their districts, or all of their seniors leave. Or all of the above.

Troy seems insurmountable. Believe me, they're not. Anyone can topple. Solon didn't make Nats in 2015. Just look at Harriton this year. Their best builder left and people are now scrambling to pick up the remains. But you don't go from 10 to 100 in one season, and oftentimes not without outside factors. Keeping Troy beat is gonna be even harder. If you beat down those kids, they (we?) will remember and come back 100x stronger, as happened at Nationals 2016.

Edit: Arcadia HS has 3000-4000 kids (closer to 3400). Got my numbers scrambled up

[Unome]

Troy...broke out of its dry spell

For those not aware, the dry spell being referred to is presumably the lack of National championships from 2009 to 2013, during which Ohio teams dominated. That's the only time Troy has gone more than two years in a row at Nationals without winning.

[EastStroudsburg13]

I agree with pretty much all of this, just two minor points.

If you don't have a proactive or helpful coach, get one ASAP. Student-run groups are susceptible to squabbling, and a coach can keep order while serving as an admin liaison and providing an adult perspective. Troy would be nothing if they didn't have a great coach.

Just a warning, this is not always possible. Sometimes the best choices are too busy or are already tied up with other clubs. Sometimes there just aren't good choices, even if you expand upon the typical "science/math" teacher type (I've known teams with foreign language coaches). If you can't find a good coach, don't feel bad because it's not your fault if there's nobody who wants to step up. You just have to readjust your goals accordingly and set them to be reachable with an essentially student-run team. Not every team can be Troy, but that doesn't mean you can't still be successful.

Just look at Harriton this year. Their best builder left and people are now scrambling to pick up the remains.

Harriton doesn't really "scramble". They're probably not going to be as good in builds, but they're going to be fine in them. They have a "system" that's been proven to work and I don't see it failing this year.

[primitivepolonium]

Just a warning, this is not always possible. Sometimes the best choices are too busy or are already tied up with other clubs. Sometimes there just aren't good choices, even if you expand upon the typical "science/math" teacher type (I've known teams with foreign language coaches). If you can't find a good coach, don't feel bad because it's not your fault if there's nobody who wants to step up. You just have to readjust your goals accordingly and set them to be reachable with an essentially student-run team. Not every team can be Troy, but that doesn't mean you can't still be successful.

True that. It really depends on your situation. I will clarify that I bring this up not because Troy has a coach and is successful, but because there are numerous SoCal schools that have a great pool of kids who then end up squabbling among themselves and really derailing their goals. I believe this is also why TJ in VA isn't as strong in SciOly as you would expect. Some adults are amazingly immature, but most adults do help in reducing adolescent ego clashes.

But again, if your only options for adult coaches are people who will dig their fingers into everything and micromanage the pigeon out of you, go student run and find a faculty member who's at least willing to sign forms for you (I've heard some districts are very...police-y). And be very careful with getting parents involved as coaches. Lots of able and dedicated parents out there; just a lot of room for things to go south.

Harriton doesn't really "scramble". They're probably not going to be as good in builds, but they're going to be fine in them. They have a "system" that's been proven to work and I don't see it failing this year.

Yeah, you're 100% right. It's too early to say what will happen, and there's plenty of time for drastic changes.

(Also, I'm sure that like the rest of us, they will scramble when it's Scramble-r time...I'll see myself out now.)

[dragonfruit35]

there are numerous SoCal schools that have a great pool of kids who then end up squabbling among themselves and really derailing their goals. I believe this is also why TJ in VA isn't as strong in SciOly as you would expect. Some adults are amazingly immature, but most adults do help in reducing adolescent ego clashes.

I'm not quite sure where you got that information... if anything, TJ might "underperform" because there are a lot of different clubs and Olympiads to choose from, and people end up spread out among those, plus the workload makes it difficult to participate in more than one or two. Speaking from experience, we're a close group that's always willing to help each other out. We've laughed together, cried sad tears together, cried happy tears together, and stayed up all night studying or just having fun. "Adolescent ego clashes" haven't really been an issue for us- if anything, I would say that in the past there's been an effort issue, but I know that I, personally, along with my teammates, am ready to grind this year and what happens happens

[primitivepolonium]

there are numerous SoCal schools that have a great pool of kids who then end up squabbling among themselves and really derailing their goals. I believe this is also why TJ in VA isn't as strong in SciOly as you would expect. Some adults are amazingly immature, but most adults do help in reducing adolescent ego clashes.

I'm not quite sure where you got that information... if anything, TJ might "underperform" because there are a lot of different clubs and Olympiads to choose from, and people end up spread out among those, plus the workload makes it difficult to participate in more than one or two. Speaking from experience, we're a close group that's always willing to help each other out. We've laughed together, cried sad tears together, cried happy tears together, and stayed up all night studying or just having fun. "Adolescent ego clashes" haven't really been an issue for us- if anything, I would say that in the past there's been an effort issue, but I know that I, personally, along with my teammates, am ready to grind this year and what happens happens

I heard this from people on the team many years ago, so things most likely have changed For instance, Troy SciOly in 2009-2013 was extremely, extremely close-knit and still hangs out together to this day, but Troy SciOly in 2014-2016 was very fractured, and there was (is) a lot of salt. (And also, regardless of which team you're talking about, there will almost always be people who get the short end of the stick, so they'll have a different and more pessimistic narrative even if they tell their side truthfully.)

I do imagine that the great amount of opportunities around the high school draws people away from SciOly though. It's simply insane the amount of accomplished kids and opportunities TJ has. Good luck w SciO; y'all sound like a super wholesome bunch!

[Taro]

Arcadia is another SoCal school strong in Science Olympiad and Science Bowl, but they're also what we call a "glass cannon". They're 4000-5000 kids big, so they have enough manpower.Still, their performance fluctuates a lot with who is currently on the team etc. You don't want this. You want your team to either improve every year or remain roughly the same.

hmMM

[pb5754]

Arcadia is another SoCal school strong in Science Olympiad and Science Bowl, but they're also what we call a "glass cannon". They're 4000-5000 kids big, so they have enough manpower.Still, their performance fluctuates a lot with who is currently on the team etc. You don't want this. You want your team to either improve every year or remain roughly the same.

hmMM

That's still a lot though...

[primitivepolonium]

Arcadia is another SoCal school strong in Science Olympiad and Science Bowl, but they're also what we call a "glass cannon". They're 4000-5000 kids big, so they have enough manpower.Still, their performance fluctuates a lot with who is currently on the team etc. You don't want this. You want your team to either improve every year or remain roughly the same.

hmMM

Oof, I must have been thinking of Carmel HS IN. Either that, or I've listened too much to various Asian parents complain about overpopulation in Arcadia :p