2020 National Tournament: North Carolina State University

[EwwPhysics]

I think that is wha most of the kids will do on my team

I competed in Division B last year as a ninth grader because I joined in January of eighth grade and I didn't feel like I had enough experience to make the Div C team since I go to Troy. At Kraemer, we've never had more than two ninth graders in a year. There are many good reasons to come back to Division B, such as the leadership opportunity and not being ready for Division C.

Last year, after the graduation of a grade that was particularly enthusiastic about SciOly(making up ~20 out of the 30-person full roster), we brought 9th graders back for the first time. Most of my previous partners had been in that grade, so bringing some of them back helped make working with partners easier and changed the overall chemistry of the team. They are nice for covering older events when no one new is strong enough to cover them adequately, as well as for keeping younger students in line. Going back is a great way to gather more experience if you are worried about not making the Div. C team, or if your middle school is stronger than your high school, but if you can make your high school team, it’s certainly a good opportunity to become used to Div. C, challenge yourself, and learn to work with partners you may be working with again the next year.

Also, Umaroth did end up making the Troy team last year but competed with/helped coach Kraemer, helping them make Nats for the first time.

Personally, making the team isn't my number one priority for scioly - if it was I'd definitely go back to division B. I think that it's quite possible to gather more experience in Div. C even if you don't make the team (unless your team doesn't go to many invies). Just my opinion.

[SilverBreeze]

I competed in Division B last year as a ninth grader because I joined in January of eighth grade and I didn't feel like I had enough experience to make the Div C team since I go to Troy. At Kraemer, we've never had more than two ninth graders in a year. There are many good reasons to come back to Division B, such as the leadership opportunity and not being ready for Division C.

Last year, after the graduation of a grade that was particularly enthusiastic about SciOly(making up ~20 out of the 30-person full roster), we brought 9th graders back for the first time. Most of my previous partners had been in that grade, so bringing some of them back helped make working with partners easier and changed the overall chemistry of the team. They are nice for covering older events when no one new is strong enough to cover them adequately, as well as for keeping younger students in line. Going back is a great way to gather more experience if you are worried about not making the Div. C team, or if your middle school is stronger than your high school, but if you can make your high school team, it’s certainly a good opportunity to become used to Div. C, challenge yourself, and learn to work with partners you may be working with again the next year.

Also, Umaroth did end up making the Troy team last year but competed with/helped coach Kraemer, helping them make Nats for the first time.

Personally, making the team isn't my number one priority for scioly - if it was I'd definitely go back to division B. I think that it's quite possible to gather more experience in Div. C even if you don't make the team (unless your team doesn't go to many invies). Just my opinion.

At Troy, most people that try out don't end up on A or B team, so they don't go to any invites. We don't take everyone that tries out/applies, and same for many (most that I know of?) high schools and middle schools. It's just not feasible to have 4+ teams when, as Umaroth mentioned in YRDC or elsewhere I think, most of them won't make the A team even by senior year. So at some schools that makes sense, but for many just the tryout isn't going to provide much experience.

[EwwPhysics]

At Troy, most people that try out don't end up on A or B team, so they don't go to any invites. We don't take everyone that tries out/applies, and same for many (most that I know of?) high schools and middle schools. It's just not feasible to have 4+ teams when, as Umaroth mentioned in YRDC or elsewhere I think, most of them won't make the A team even by senior year. So at some schools that makes sense, but for many just the tryout isn't going to provide much experience.

Ah, our schools are obviously very different. The high school I’m going to (Lower Merion) barely has 40 people even interested in doing scioly anyways, so we don’t have tryouts. They often don’t stack at invies so everyone has the chance to compete. If I were at a school with tryouts,my view would probably be different.

[MadCow2357]

At Troy, most people that try out don't end up on A or B team, so they don't go to any invites. We don't take everyone that tries out/applies, and same for many (most that I know of?) high schools and middle schools. It's just not feasible to have 4+ teams when, as Umaroth mentioned in YRDC or elsewhere I think, most of them won't make the A team even by senior year. So at some schools that makes sense, but for many just the tryout isn't going to provide much experience.

Ah, our schools are obviously very different. The high school I’m going to (Lower Merion) barely has 40 people even interested in doing scioly anyways, so we don’t have tryouts. They often don’t stack at invies so everyone has the chance to compete. If I were at a school with tryouts,my view would probably be different.

No need to feel bad

My old middle school barely had 15 people willing to even compete, although we had a good chance of making nationals every year

[SilverBreeze]

At Troy, most people that try out don't end up on A or B team, so they don't go to any invites. We don't take everyone that tries out/applies, and same for many (most that I know of?) high schools and middle schools. It's just not feasible to have 4+ teams when, as Umaroth mentioned in YRDC or elsewhere I think, most of them won't make the A team even by senior year. So at some schools that makes sense, but for many just the tryout isn't going to provide much experience.

Ah, our schools are obviously very different. The high school I’m going to (Lower Merion) barely has 40 people even interested in doing scioly anyways, so we don’t have tryouts. They often don’t stack at invies so everyone has the chance to compete. If I were at a school with tryouts,my view would probably be different.

No need to feel bad

My old middle school barely had 15 people willing to even compete, although we had a good chance of making nationals every year

One year my middle school had 60 people try out(we took 30). The same year we didn't make States...

[Godspeed]

Ah, our schools are obviously very different. The high school I’m going to (Lower Merion) barely has 40 people even interested in doing scioly anyways, so we don’t have tryouts. They often don’t stack at invies so everyone has the chance to compete. If I were at a school with tryouts,my view would probably be different.

No need to feel bad

My old middle school barely had 15 people willing to even compete, although we had a good chance of making nationals every year

One year my middle school had 60 people try out(we took 30). The same year we didn't make States...

Our middle school had over 200 people try out this year.

[knightmoves]

At Troy, most people that try out don't end up on A or B team, so they don't go to any invites. We don't take everyone that tries out/applies, and same for many (most that I know of?) high schools and middle schools. It's just not feasible to have 4+ teams when, as Umaroth mentioned in YRDC or elsewhere I think, most of them won't make the A team even by senior year. So at some schools that makes sense, but for many just the tryout isn't going to provide much experience.

To be fair, that's a choice. There are plenty of schools that do have 4 teams, and send them to invites. Sometimes, all 4 teams go, sometimes just a couple of teams go, and depending on the quality of the invite, it might be the top teams or it might not be.

It depends what your school wants scioly to be. If you're all about the A team, and your only goal is to develop a team to win Nationals, then you're right - you don't have any interest in people that aren't potential future A team members. But that's a choice. You might have some solid C-team people who are never going to make the A-team, but nevertheless have a good experience competing in a couple of lesser invites. Scioly can be for them too - it doesn't have to be just for the elites. It's a choice.

[pb5754]

At Troy, most people that try out don't end up on A or B team, so they don't go to any invites. We don't take everyone that tries out/applies, and same for many (most that I know of?) high schools and middle schools. It's just not feasible to have 4+ teams when, as Umaroth mentioned in YRDC or elsewhere I think, most of them won't make the A team even by senior year. So at some schools that makes sense, but for many just the tryout isn't going to provide much experience.

To be fair, that's a choice. There are plenty of schools that do have 4 teams, and send them to invites. Sometimes, all 4 teams go, sometimes just a couple of teams go, and depending on the quality of the invite, it might be the top teams or it might not be.

It depends what your school wants scioly to be. If you're all about the A team, and your only goal is to develop a team to win Nationals, then you're right - you don't have any interest in people that aren't potential future A team members. But that's a choice. You might have some solid C-team people who are never going to make the A-team, but nevertheless have a good experience competing in a couple of lesser invites. Scioly can be for them too - it doesn't have to be just for the elites. It's a choice.

tbh unless you live somewhere where there are a bunch of instate tournaments (eg. Ohio) or you have the money to attend a lot of more distant comps, i feel like it's hard to be able to have more than 3 teams while also being able to adequately prepare/develop the A/B teams for the current/future seasons.

[sciolyperson1]

At Troy, most people that try out don't end up on A or B team, so they don't go to any invites. We don't take everyone that tries out/applies, and same for many (most that I know of?) high schools and middle schools. It's just not feasible to have 4+ teams when, as Umaroth mentioned in YRDC or elsewhere I think, most of them won't make the A team even by senior year. So at some schools that makes sense, but for many just the tryout isn't going to provide much experience.

To be fair, that's a choice. There are plenty of schools that do have 4 teams, and send them to invites. Sometimes, all 4 teams go, sometimes just a couple of teams go, and depending on the quality of the invite, it might be the top teams or it might not be.

It depends what your school wants scioly to be. If you're all about the A team, and your only goal is to develop a team to win Nationals, then you're right - you don't have any interest in people that aren't potential future A team members. But that's a choice. You might have some solid C-team people who are never going to make the A-team, but nevertheless have a good experience competing in a couple of lesser invites. Scioly can be for them too - it doesn't have to be just for the elites. It's a choice.

tbh unless you live somewhere where there are a bunch of instate tournaments (eg. Ohio) or you have the money to attend a lot of more distant comps, i feel like it's hard to be able to have more than 3 teams while also being able to adequately prepare/develop the A/B teams for the current/future seasons.

San Deigo regionals though

[aakoala]

At Troy, most people that try out don't end up on A or B team, so they don't go to any invites. We don't take everyone that tries out/applies, and same for many (most that I know of?) high schools and middle schools. It's just not feasible to have 4+ teams when, as Umaroth mentioned in YRDC or elsewhere I think, most of them won't make the A team even by senior year. So at some schools that makes sense, but for many just the tryout isn't going to provide much experience.

To be fair, that's a choice. There are plenty of schools that do have 4 teams, and send them to invites. Sometimes, all 4 teams go, sometimes just a couple of teams go, and depending on the quality of the invite, it might be the top teams or it might not be.

It depends what your school wants scioly to be. If you're all about the A team, and your only goal is to develop a team to win Nationals, then you're right - you don't have any interest in people that aren't potential future A team members. But that's a choice. You might have some solid C-team people who are never going to make the A-team, but nevertheless have a good experience competing in a couple of lesser invites. Scioly can be for them too - it doesn't have to be just for the elites. It's a choice.

True, but where are the coaches and parents to keep an eye on everyone? Captains and parents are exhausted arranging everything as is. For something like a Christmas social, are you going to invite 60 kids and their parents? Do you leave out C team, D, etc.? Do you cancel it altogether? A lot of SciOly teams build camaraderie within themselves, and that's impossible when you can't find a place to host gatherings of everyone. How do you manage team practices? Is everyone who tries out willing to spend time on SciOly or donate(or try to help out in another way)?

Inclusiveness is certainly a great goal to strive for, if you choose to. But if you want to build a team that is willing to put in hundreds of hours and support each other at competition, 60+ teams make any kind of gathering difficult, not to mention team practices. SciOly isn't just for the elites, but what about the 20ish people that only try out for Anatomy and Physiology and no other event? Are you going to allow people that won't put in any time toward studying and will probably ditch many if not most invites, but you need to make room for them in all your arrangements? Where do you draw the line? What about team drama? "I should be on A team, but [something something]."

Coming to Troy is a choice as well. I'm not sure anyone comes to Troy without knowing that it might be hard, that you might fail. But it's an opportunity to challenge yourself. You can choose to go to your local high school or take non-honors classes. But if every honors class was kept at a level that every student who applied for honors courses could understand, the top students in those classes would be bored out of their minds. Yes, every student has their own potential, their own talents, their own way of being unique. But imagine how boring the world would be if every art class was kept at a level everyone could draw at, every sport was kept at a level everyone could play at, every test kept to a level everyone could pass. Everyone has their own place in the world, but we all have unique strengths we want to develop. There are plenty of science clubs and ways to be involved in science that don't involve hundreds of hours of studying. But when you have enough students that are willing to put in the time required and really want to compete at States or Nats, is it fair to spread resources and coach/parent time thin with more students than you can handle? If you have a bunch of students that just love science and don't want to put in as much time, go for it. SciOly is meaningful beyond that trophy or medal. But if you have competitors that don't want to spend as much time on SciOly as others, is it fair for them to hold back others? As long as you provide those people with an opportunity to explore their passion for science(and Troy has plenty of science clubs), I don't see what's wrong with giving a smaller, more dedicated group a chance to push themselves further.

Small teams aren't solely about A team performance or winning Nats. They are about keeping dedicated coaches, captains, and parents sane. They are about building a close circle of potentially lifelong friends with similar interests. They are about striving to go as far as you can, and supporting each other, not holding each other back.





I am sorry if I offended anyone, as attacking wasn't the goal of this post. I am not against having many teams, nor am I against people that don't consider SciOly their main activity or can't give as much time to it as they'd like. I made this post because I felt Troy was being attacked a bit. I do not represent Troy or its policies/philosophies, and any idiotic statements I made are solely my own.