Robot Arm C

[jander14indoor]

Not official, submit a question on NSO web page for official answer, etc.

In the past that one point was for items NOT in the goal box/carton. If an item was in the goal box/carton it was scored for that. Items were scored in one place, not under two different sub rules.

Reading this years rules I'm not sure that's explicitly clear.

However, if an item can (I'm not sure it can mind you) get both the bonus carton score (para 7b) AND the location score (para 7.d), the pencil is not fully in the north zone so it wouldn't get the point. North zone (and south zone) both extend vertically. It would get the bonus carton score as that score is regardless of the location of the bonus carton. Item just has to be fully supported by the carton.

Unofficially of course...

Jeff Anderson
Livonia, MI

[Bazinga+]

Not official, submit a question on NSO web page for official answer, etc.

In the past that one point was for items NOT in the goal box/carton. If an item was in the goal box/carton it was scored for that. Items were scored in one place, not under two different sub rules.

Reading this years rules I'm not sure that's explicitly clear.

However, if an item can (I'm not sure it can mind you) get both the bonus carton score (para 7b) AND the location score (para 7.d), the pencil is not fully in the north zone so it wouldn't get the point. North zone (and south zone) both extend vertically. It would get the bonus carton score as that score is regardless of the location of the bonus carton. Item just has to be fully supported by the carton.

Unofficially of course...

Jeff Anderson
Livonia, MI

So if an item is in a carton and that carton partially leaves the competition area, would all the item in the carton be dqed, only the ones that are partially outside, or would they still receive full carton score?

[jander14indoor]

UNOFFICIAL, as usual, but its not hard to check where I'm paraphrasing rules...

Rule 6.e allows the goal carton to be ANYWHERE. Rule 7.a reinforces that, goal cartons are allowed to touch down out of bounds, no penalty specified.
Rule 7.a only takes away point (zeros them) for ITEMS (defined in para 5.d) that TOUCH DOWN on the surface out of bounds. There is no mention of a penalty for flying through the air out of bounds.
Rule 7.b awards the bonus points to items fully supported by the goal cartons. If they are fully supported by the carton they aren't touching the surface out of bounds, are they? Wherever the carton itself is. If they are touching a surface (in or out of bounds) they wouldn't be fully supported and wouldn't get the goal box score.

So, based on that...
Sounds like you get the bonus score.

Comment, questions like this are why I STRONGLY recommend that if you are a competitor you personally read the rules closely and understand them!
It finds errors for us before the competition (that's typically where Clarifications come from) and may find intentional holes for you to exploit.
Example, the first year I ran this, one team took advantage of moving the bonus jugs (that year they were milk cartons) to where it was much easier and faster to move objects. This gave them a significant advantage in speed and accuracy during the competitions. They placed highly (I don't remember exactly where, may have won state) as a result with what was a relatively small and cheap arm. Few other teams took advantage of that perfectly legal action.

Note, I am not recommending a specific strategy, but that you understand the rules well enough to not unintentionally limit yourself.

Jeff Anderson
Livonia, MI

[windu34]

What if for example the pencils are supported by both the west and north cartons? Do I get the points for them being in the west carton (worth 1 point more than the north)?

[bernard]

What if for example the pencils are supported by both the west and north cartons? Do I get the points for them being in the west carton (worth 1 point more than the north)?

No, see rule 7.b., no points for items in multiple cartons.

[Bazinga+]

What I don't get is if the cartons have to be completely on the north zone for the items to receive the 1 pt. I also checked the rules and it seemed like the max score counted both carton score and the north zone score(4+1=5).

[jander14indoor]

Again, unofficial, etc...

Treat the location of the item for the North zone as not being related to its status in the bonus carton. For it to get the north zone score it has to be fully in the north zone.

To get the carton score an item has to be fully supported by the carton, does not have to be in any particular zone.

Lets try this. Carton is half in north zone and half out of bounds.
- Any item fully supported by the carton AND fully in the north zone is eligible for both the carton score and the North zone score. Example, a lego is in the carton in a pocket fully in the north zone.
- Any item fully supported by the carton and out of bounds or partially out of bounds only gets the carton score. Example, a lego is in the carton in a pocket fully out of bounds. A pencil supported by the carton, but in both North zone and out of bounds, only gets the carton score.

PS, I agree, the score sheet counts both north zone points and carton points for an item. Consistent to the language in the rules (to my reading), just not my memory. And of course the rules beat my memory...

Jeff Anderson
Livonia, MI

[Bazinga+]

One more question: how far away from the edge of the south competition zone line are the outer penils and balls? Since on the diagram it shows the pencils and balls practically touching the border.

[retired1]

It touches the tape outer edge of the tape. The zone is defined as the inner edge of the tape, so the distance is the width of the tape.. At least how I read the rules.

[Bazinga+]

It touches the tape outer edge of the tape. The zone is defined as the inner edge of the tape, so the distance is the width of the tape.. At least how I read the rules.

Ok that gives a good amound of space. Thanks.